1725
Mr. Goodenow has a real strong understanding of
the hockey industry, because he moved to Canada at a
time when his son was about 12 years old and therefore
came up through the program. Of course Bob also
played U.S. college hockey, so he has an appreciation
of both sides of the fence in terms of development. So
I think it would be very interesting to see how he
would respond to that particular question.
Dev, is there something you would ask as question two?
Mr. Dev Dley: No, I think you might be stuck
with question one most of the day.
The Chairman: I think we should now move on to Mr.
O'Brien. The phone's going to be ringing pretty soon,
and we're going to be getting a cancellation from Mr.
Goodenow.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Mr. Pat O'Brien: You're not going to be allowed in
any arena in the NHL.
A witness: The owners would love it.
Mr. Pat O'Brien: I think it would be great.
Unfortunately, I think we all know the courts give
18-year-olds the right to seek employment in the NHL,
and there will always be 18-year-olds who will want to
seek that employment. As much as I like the idea, I
think it's a non-starter, but I'd love to be proven
wrong.
I know a little bit about the education program,
having had Brendan Shanahan right at
a school I taught at. He was a very bright young
man, as well as an awesome hockey player-of Irish
extraction, I might note.
I know there are individual awards, but is there a
team academic award? There's a reason I ask that. for
fans of college football, if you took a look at the
athletes who actually graduate from those programs,
Notre Dame is far and away ahead of all other
colleges, but that's not well known unless you're
interested in the academic future of these student
athletes. So I wonder if there are OHL, WHL,
and Quebec league academic team awards for the students
who actually finish their program, and what the
criteria you would use would be.
Mr. David Branch: I'll allow each of us to respond
to that on behalf of our respective leagues.
In the case of the Ontario Hockey League, first of all
there is educational assistance, post-OHL and
post-secondary school, if they do not proceed to play
professionally. We do recognize student athletes at
the team level, and we then have an award for what we
call the academic player of the year. Each team puts
forward its own academic player of the year, one of
whom will then be recognized as the Ontario Hockey
League academic player of the year. He will receive
the Bobby Smith trophy. While Bobby Smith was
playing with the Ottawa 67's, he was an Ontario
Scholar, and he actually proceeded to medical school
while playing for the 67's. So that's one way in which
we attempt to recognize, foster, support, and promote
that aspect.
Since the days of Brendan, too, we've also started a
program involving what we call our educational
consultants. Each team has an educational consultant
who works with the players and the teams. In our
league, they now meet at least twice a year to discuss
issues of common interest, and to support the
educational component for the student athlete.
Mr. Dley touched on the issue of the Memorial Cup
champions from Portland, where all the players
were going to school. The Guelph Storm, which was also
at the tournament in Spokane last spring, brought
their educational consultant with the team at the
team's expense, and she conducted study halls. They
brought six laptop computers and players wrote exams
during Memorial Cup week.
Junior hockey used to conjure up two visions for
people of my age: one, that players couldn't go to
school; and two, violence. I believe there have been
huge strides made in those areas.
I'm taking too long to respond. I'm sorry. I'll hand
it over to Mr. Dley and Mr. Courteau.
Mr. Pat O'Brien: I appreciate that,
but I knew some of that. It's very interesting to
hear, but my question was pretty simple: is there a
Memorial Cup type of academic award? I don't mean for the
team that wins the Memorial Cup-which is great and is
the purpose of junior hockey-but for the team that, as
a team, has the best performance by its student
athletes. I'm just curious.
The Chairman: You mean a collective award for the
team as a whole.
Mr. Pat O'Brien: That's right, exactly. That's
what I meant to say. Maybe I didn't express it well.
Mr. David Branch: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't quite
understand that.
1730
Mr. Dev Dley: We don't have a collective
award, but I think that's a great initiative to put
forward. We recognize a scholastic player on a league
level and then nationally, and then there's further
assistance. Once the players go on to university, we
give monthly scholarships over and above what their
normal scholarship would be for a deserving student
athlete who is attending a particular university.
Mr. Pat O'Brien: I think what you're doing is
great. I can say that as a teacher who has coached
some hockey at the high school level. I think those
are wonderful initiatives. I just throw that other one
out as an idea.
Mr. Chairman, with my last question, I want to go
right to what I think is the heart of a lot of the work
of this committee vis-à-vis hockey, although we're not
just talking hockey.
As Denis said, the fact is that the issue that has
gotten the greatest attention has been whether the
Government of Canada should give some financial
assistance to the pro franchises-not just hockey, but
pro sports franchises-in this country, considering the
number of unfair problems they face as compared to
their American competitors. I polled my constituents
informally in what we call a householder, and they are
overwhelmingly opposed.
Because I've been asked to by the local media, I'm
going to put the case to the public in writing soon. I
think there is a very good argument to offer support to
pro franchises in Canada, but I need all the help I can
get to sell it, because I don't think the public is
onside, despite our passion for hockey. This leads me
to my question.
Monsieur Courteau mentioned the slogan "official
supplier to the NHL" as a very neat marketing
strategy. What's the negative impact of a loss of an
NHL franchise on the CHL? What did it do to junior
hockey in the west, in Manitoba specifically, when we
lost the Jets out there?
Mr. David Branch: First of all, we're not entirely
privy to everything the National Hockey League has
brought forward to you and requested consideration on.
Not knowing the specifics-and hopefully you recognize
that-we are certainly of the opinion that losing NHL
franchises has an adverse effect on our country in
terms of hockey: on its presence, on the interest in
it, on the support for it, and everything that goes
with it. While we're not here to show for the National
Hockey League, and while we don't know just what
they've necessarily asked for in terms of tax
concessions or to what extent they've asked for
them-obviously we've read the newspapers-yes, we do
think there is merit to considering support to maintain
their presence and profile in this country.
The Chairman: Mr. Provenzano.
Mr. Carmen Provenzano: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: From Sault Ste. Marie.
Mr. Carmen Provenzano: From Sault Ste. Marie, home
of the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds.
The Chairman: Did you play hockey in the Sault?
Mr. Carmen Provenzano: I'm proud of our team and
its wonderful history.
As we were talking, I just had a chance to go through
the various issues in the content of the brief. I
don't say this in a critical way, but it seems to me
there's an important point that isn't being
made-and I say that respectfully. There seems to be a
tendency on the part of the CHL, maybe in its brief as
well, to measure its success in terms of the number of
players that come out of the CHL and graduate, so to
speak, to the NHL, whereas there's an entire industry
to be considered.
Hockey is an industry. I'm sure there are a lot more
players who earn a livelihood in the minor pros. If we
were looking at any trade, whatever that trade might
be, there's an apprenticeship time. I see the Canadian
Hockey League as providing the opportunity to
apprentice, in a sense, for what has become an industry
and a vocation, that being that of a hockey player.
1735
Whether you make it to the NHL or the minor pros,
hockey affords the opportunity for a career and a
livelihood that is very attractive.
Of course we recognize that such a career has a
limitation. Especially with respect to the minor pros,
though, I would think the average longevity of a career
is greater than the average longevity of a career in
the NHL.
It seems to me that in providing this opportunity to
apprentice-and that's what the CHL does-there is some
benefit. There's a general benefit there that has to
be understood and somehow characterized as providing
an opportunity for people to earn a gainful livelihood,
because hockey is an industry. It's a sport, but it's
a business. In the larger sense, it's a big business.
It's a big industry that employs a lot of people.
If you look at yourselves as being involved in the
apprenticeship business and you present that
aspect-because I personally think it has great
value-then I think you can ask for consideration for
the provision of that function, which nobody seems to
come and ask for. Nobody seems to make that point, and
I think it's a big one.
I read that section on education. Really, your entire
brief centres around the fact that there are dollars
provided for education, whether they're provided
in post-secondary education or as tutorial services to
secondary school students. But at the moment,
gentlemen, I think
you'd have to admit that not every player who plays in
the OHL is offered post-secondary assistance to go to
university if he in fact doesn't choose to continue in
hockey for whatever reason. Maybe there's something in
that area where there should be some
consideration given, especially to the Canadian Hockey
League.
We have a whole set of considerations to think about
when we get to the professional level, but shouldn't
the Canadian Hockey League be asking for that
consideration? Maybe you can somehow link that up with
the kinds of dollars that have to go out if you want to
provide viable educational packages to people who
"graduate" from your league but do not graduate into
a professional role.
Mr. David Branch: If I could respond, I'll try to
be brief, Mr. Chairman.
I think the area Mr. Provenzano touches on
is a very important one.
We didn't know the extent of what our brief should
necessarily encompass-how much and so forth. He's
right on the issue of the number of our graduates
playing minor professional hockey, playing in Europe.
We did list the current players playing in the CIAU,
and we think that's a very important element
to our overall program as well.
All leagues now do provide financial
assistance to every player who plays. When a player comes
into the program, it's guaranteed that he gets a bare
minimum. The Western Hockey League has a program that
has certain elements that are unique to it, as does the
Quebec league as opposed to the Ontario league, and so
forth, but we all do provide support.
In the case of the Ontario Hockey League, the
contingent liability to an OHL member team for post-OHL
educational support averages around $125,000. That's a
huge commitment. Not everybody will in fact draw upon
it, because you have the Joe Thorntons
of the world who will go on to sign
a professional contract. But clearly, one of the
things we have asked is whether there is some
resource that we could work on through you to allow us
to be provided some assistance for education and the
continuing scholarship opportunities that keep kids
playing in Canada, as well as at the CIAU level.
Mr. Carmen Provenzano: Why not put a value on the
training you give these people for jobs in hockey?
To me, that's something very important.
The Chairman: Just before we move on to our next
questioner, Mr. Provenzano, I'm trying to understand
something here. Are you suggesting that if it was
designed as an apprenticeship program, then it might
have consideration under the Department of Human
Resources Development as a sort of apprenticeship,
training-type function?
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