De Lotto's Tjeerd Veenstra, the man who started the crusade to block foreign I-betting companies from offering their services in the Netherlands, has a winning streak of five court cases. It could become six tomorrow, if the long awaited verdict in the Ladbrokes/De Lotto case isn't postponed for a fifth time.
Veenstra, 56, is De Lotto's director as well as a member of the board of the European Lotteries, president of the European Legal Affairs Commission and president of the Legal Working Group. He joined De Lotto as an ad-interim manager in 1994 and is now part of the sports betting organization responsible for the (international) external affairs, legal affairs and all regulation matters. His co-chair is responsible for all the other operational activities.
On the eve of verdict (presuming it's not postponed again), IGN had an exclusive interview with him.
IGN:The man who takes on, so successfully, the whole world, banning internet operators outside the Netherlands, should be a lawyer, of course. But that is not the case, is it?
Tjeerd Veenstra: A lot of people think that I have a legal background, but that is not the case. However, little by little, I start to feel like a lawyer. I'm lucky to have 12 legal experts in my working group, coming from all different European operators. And I'm able to select them by their special qualifications. Furthermore we are advised by the Vlaemminck and Partners, who are well known in our business, and our legal advisor of De Lotto, Tineke Ockhorst. Last but not least, I would like to mention Joris van Manen, an excellent lawyer who is representing us in the several court cases. I feel really comfortable to rely on such an amount of expertise."
IGN: So trying to keep out the foreign operators in the membership countries of the European Lotteries is a European effort?
TV: Yes and no. Of course the group I mentioned is the brain frame from where I get my information from. And when foreign bookmakers attack certain countries, there is a lot of mutual consultations and direct contacts. Above that, we meet during congresses and other meetings. We follow very closely the U.K. and Austrian bookmakers."
They (the bookmakers) are not so well organized, as we are. I know the cooperation initiatives of the EBA (European Betting Association) and also the latest association ARGO (Association of Remote Gaming Operators, they will never work as one front.
We know the legal themes, we have a long-time tied cooperation among our members. We take care of the international information and coordination. We have had top international lawyers working for a long time for our members, and they have between them good contacts and information exchange. I have to say this carefully, but sometimes we are not so very much impressed by our opponent lawyer teams.
We have to play our European game. We should prevent that something doltish or vapid can take place in a legal procedure in which ever European country. This may have repercussions for other court cases in European countries or in the E.U. circles. Our opposition is, of course, trying to get a case for the European Court in Luxembourg!²
We monitor all the important issues within the E.U. E.U. laws are taking over the national laws of the member states. We have to be involved concerning matters of database protection, e-commerce directive, harmonization, fair trade, monopolies, money laundering, etc. That is the reason why the European Lotteries started a lobbying office in the heart of the E.U. in Brussels, which I'm leading. The official title is General Delegate of the European Lotteries EU Representation.
Till now, we are happy with how things are going. Gambelli was not the big success as our opponents would give the impression. But one judge, one court case may change everything. We are attacked via legal procedures and sometimes nationally by the politicians. And that creates a field of tension and permanent alert.
IGN: Could Germany be a breakpoint?
TV: We are watching the developments in Germany, as if in every country; it could become critical. We go from court case to court case, but one should not forget that we are regulated by governments and there is a "return on investment" for the lottery winners and the good causes in a regulated environment. And in the E.U., it is accepted that there are cultural identities. And lotteries, in the broad field, are specific cultural organizations.
IGN: But there are several members of the European Lotteries organization who are only after higher turnovers, are quoted on stock exchanges, are attacking or buying lotteries in other jurisdictions, etc. Lottomatica, Intralot, etc.
TV: Now I have to be very careful. Yes, I have to confirm that some members, thus colleagues, when you look very careful are passing the red line. And that could become dangerous.²
IGN: Especially with the Gambelli verdict in the hands of lawyers?
TV: Yes this could become tricky. I think they can have a problem in Italy, Greece and in the U.K. But 95 percent of the members are within the correct boundaries. Self correction should be necessary here.
IGN: You could also legally prevent Betfair from getting any ground in The Netherlands.
TV: I think this is a very dangerous development. Huge amounts are laid in and there is no control at all. This is a development that worries us a lot. When they say that [the betting exchanges] are only facilitators, then that is not correct. Also, Betfair gave the impression that they had contacts and an OK from the Dutch Ministry of Justice. However, in the Netherlands it will not be allowed. It is written in article 1: It is forbidden to give the opportunity to participate in games of chance.
Internationally, one can see a trend. There is a shakeout of big bookmakers. Too many Web site are offering the same products. Bookmakers have to stay attractive and trustable, and the odds have to be edgy critical (sic), but that is negative for the profitability for the bookmakers. So they are retrieving of risk full odds (sic), and that's why the betting exchanges are popping up. Punters mutually have to share the risks, and the betting exchanges are only, without any risk, cashing the commissions.
The future legislation in the U.K. is too bizarre to mention. In a policy paper of the new draft, it is literally mentioned that it is "perverse" that the English betting products can not be sold in the rest of the E.U. The U.K. should realize that they are part of the E.U. When they want to have a change, they should try to get a majority within the E.U. Well I promise you, I will not live that through in my function.